Discussing a moderation tool revamp on the Nerdcubed staff Slack


daalpha [10:09 PM] 
So uh, great answers I have received.

sjokie [10:09 PM]
Define 'great'

daalpha [10:09 PM]
local great = "productive, clear, short, simple"

willhump [10:09 PM]
why are we scrapping badmin btw? can we have pros and cons?

daalpha [10:10 PM]
Pros: it is an admin panel. Cons: There is no consistency, it is super long and an asshole to even remotely get into, half-broken (dafuq is this plumbob stuff?) and from what I have seen not well coded either.

In my opinion, the job of an admin can be done with a hand full of simple commands. No reason to give staff more power than necessary. It only leads to dickishness.

sjokie [10:11 PM]
The plumbob was from the old Badmin script made by Bob, it's just there to know it was coming again.

danjovi [10:12 PM]
@daalpha remember I gave you access to it all. Most staff members don't have that many tabs

they can't touch perms or anything like that

icarus [10:12 PM]
Everything is going to hell and I love it <3

sjokie [10:12 PM]
Dammit Icarus :stuck_out_tongue:

icarus [10:13 PM]
I still vote for two-seater bikes if you want my two cents!

arkadius [10:13 PM]
?*eats popcorn*?

sjokie [10:13 PM]
In all honesty, even though Badmin is badly written and all. I would not want to see it be gone...

willhump [10:13 PM]
the ability to see chat logs of players, ID and steam ID with options to teleport to them and them to you, kick and ban with a timer is all my pro's, basically all of the players tab i find pretty great

even a rollback to badmin 2.0 which was simpler i think would be fine

arkadius [10:14 PM]
Once @daalpha has started running my speedometer script on the test server could you guys test it and tell me if it is shit (likely) and if its buggy (even more likely)

willhump [10:14 PM]
its been around since before anyone else here became a mod, I wouldnt like to see it go

icarus [10:14 PM]
Badmin is what lets us do our jobs effectively. Sure, it may be a bit cluttered, but it's fairly useful.

willhump [10:14 PM]
hence why the old badmin would be good, was more streamlined

danjovi [10:15 PM]
Guys, quick vote @channel. K = keep, D = dump

sjokie [10:15 PM]
Strawpoll pls?

willhump [10:15 PM]

sjokie [10:15 PM]

icarus [10:15 PM]
K but for wut tho

willhump [10:15 PM]
keep badmin

icarus [10:15 PM]
Take all my Ks

arkadius [10:15 PM]
"I love you" ".......K"

theperkyriolu [10:16 PM]
Strawpoll would probably be easier tbh

danjovi [10:16 PM]
too mcuh effort

basically got 5 keeps in half a min

sjokie [10:16 PM]
// Alpha note: the result of this was 100% to keep badmin

Do it

danjovi [10:17 PM]
@daalpha is it possible to rework the badmin menu?

arkadius [10:17 PM]
Damn beat me to it

theperkyriolu [10:17 PM]

sjokie [10:17 PM]

theperkyriolu [10:17 PM]
ffs (edited)

daalpha [10:17 PM]
Possible: yes. Will I do it? No.

arkadius [10:17 PM]

danjovi [10:17 PM]
@daalpha it's kinda your job pal

willhump [10:18 PM]
is garm available to do anything?

sjokie [10:18 PM]
No, it is not. Wait

daalpha [10:18 PM]
Then I do not really see this project working out.

willhump [10:18 PM]
he knows it after all

sjokie [10:18 PM]
Rewriting Badmin would be taking a lot of time

icarus [10:18 PM]
Lets just keep badmin the way it is and keep everyone happy <3

danjovi [10:18 PM]
I need the mods to be happy about moderating though :confused:

icarus [10:18 PM]
is happy

daalpha [10:19 PM]
In the end, I am volunteering for this. If there is too much resistance to stick with the old crap, I do not see a purpose to continue my efforts.

sjokie [10:19 PM]
We can't rely on @daalpha to rewrite the whole Badmin script though, that's way too much work to be done...

daalpha [10:19 PM]
And this accounts for more than just the badmin.

danjovi [10:19 PM]
I've asked garm and bobsayshilol for a hand

sjokie [10:19 PM]
Garm is busy, Bob is busy please,

danjovi [10:19 PM]
The issue is, badmin is basically the hub of the whole server

arkadius [10:19 PM]
I would prefer if we had the badmin, but thats merely because its what I know. I think the new way of moderating would be just as good, if not better.

sjokie [10:19 PM]
What is the reason we cannot keep Badmin in it's current state?

danjovi [10:20 PM]
getting rid of that is asking for people to be unhappy moderating and therefore not moderating

sjokie [10:20 PM]
Like, not update it anymore at all

danjovi [10:20 PM]
tbh i dont actually have a problem with badmin as it is

willhump [10:20 PM]
cant we just have all the new stuff and literally copy+paste badmin in at the end?

arkadius [10:20 PM]

danjovi [10:20 PM]
might be a good idea to streamline the prefix system but other than that

willhump [10:20 PM]
i dont know if that could work so correct me if im wrong

daalpha [10:20 PM]
Stated above. If I run an overhaul, I do not just fix half of it and let the other half stay crappy or even break it with framework changes.

arkadius [10:20 PM]
@daalpha: would the combo affect anything that much?

old and new moderating system?

daalpha [10:21 PM]
A combo is even worse. Like with the current combination of the WarpGUI and the old shitty /goto. You do not want two things do the same. Redundancy like this only serves the purpose of doubled maintenance complexity.

danjovi [10:22 PM]
what's /goto?


willhump [10:22 PM]
/tpm but with names

danjovi [10:22 PM]

theperkyriolu [10:22 PM]
nice one dan

daalpha [10:22 PM]
Yeah, that.

sjokie [10:22 PM]
@daalpha: As far as I know, Badmin doesn't rely on most of the badly written scripts that are on the server. Is it really not possible to keep it untouched and update the other scripts?

daalpha [10:23 PM]
Meant the /tpm thing. Don't even know if /goto does anything.

willhump [10:23 PM]
ive never known us to have a working /goto

danjovi [10:23 PM]
the warp thing and ./tpm do have different purposes

warp allows whitelists, /tpm for events

daalpha [10:23 PM]
It is possible, yes. But then it would stick with an inefficient permissions system that would run parallel to the one I have planned (and actually already finished)

I have had a discussion about the teleporting stuff as well just 20 minutes ago.

Why would you need two systems for that if the whitelist all checkbox is a thing?

arkadius [10:24 PM]
If moving to the new moderating system will keep you here @daalpha then I change from K to D

daalpha [10:24 PM]
Especially considering my customized version works with 5 commands (/tpm, /goto, /warp and some other stuff) AND has support for privileged staff teleporting without requests.

danjovi [10:25 PM]
For example: "Roadtrip at /tpm 122" is much easier than Roadtrip at /warp then press on someones name etc

icarus [10:25 PM]
So, to make it clear, if we don't change around badmin, we can't change around anything?

daalpha [10:25 PM]
The thing is, the command would still do exactly the same. Only the entire backend is different and it is not two scripts running in their seperare universes.

Nono, to make it clear, if we don't agree on replacing badmin, I will not change anything.

danjovi [10:26 PM]
that's called blackmailing

sjokie [10:26 PM]

daalpha [10:26 PM]
If I am volunteering for something, it is not blackmailing.

icarus [10:27 PM]
But, than again, it's basically a giant machine. If we elect to remove all the cogs but one, the machine will run like shit due to that one unchanged cog, isn't it?

theperkyriolu [10:27 PM]
so, let me get this strieght, is it POSSIBLE  to change things even without replacing Badmin? (edited)

icarus [10:28 PM]
Why can't we all just have hot fudge sundaes and get along

daalpha [10:28 PM]
It will not run shit, it will run worse. Tt would run on an entirely different permission system than the entire rest of the scripts and it would be something I would refuse to work for maintenance or improvements because digging into it and understanding it alone takes hours. And for a coder like me, it creates a strong urge to get rid of it and replace it with something I have an overview of.

It is possible. Ofc.

willhump [10:29 PM]
just did a test, advertised a roadtrip asking people to warp to me

got a good 12 people

so /tpm maybe isnt so god like

theperkyriolu [10:30 PM]
I mean, it's not like any of the staff have names that are impossible to type out

uncleleech [10:30 PM]
joined #justcause

theperkyriolu [10:31 PM]
Is that the only thing that we would have to change?

uncleleech [10:31 PM]
hey daalpha pls pm me

I just want to hear why etc. because there are a lot of non-techs here

gimme technical deets and shit ya dig

icarus [10:32 PM]
I think that means no hot fudge sundaes

sjokie [10:32 PM]

theperkyriolu [10:33 PM]
seriously though, if the main problem of changing is just between having /tpm or /warp, there seriously shouldn't be a problem

uncleleech [10:33 PM]

calm the fuck down

you don't know what the code is like and what's happening etc.

just wait until me and someone else who knows lua has a look and shit

icarus [10:43 PM]


sjokie [10:44 PM]

danjovi [10:44 PM]

icarus [10:45 PM]
Ah, feels like home.

willhump [10:45 PM]

arkadius [10:45 PM]
then why take a strawpoll?

danjovi [10:45 PM]

daalpha [10:46 PM]
Because the opinion of regular players on a server matter more than the one of someone who has not been around on the server that is up for discussion for a long time (his own words).

icarus [10:46 PM]
Then why the whole K/D

theperkyriolu [10:46 PM]
danjovi [21:15]
Guys, quick vote . K = keep, D = dump

arkadius [10:47 PM]
Surely the decision should be heavily influenced by the people actually using the system i.e. mods (edited)

daalpha [10:47 PM]

danjovi [10:47 PM]
This is why we're in the badmin position

icarus [10:47 PM]
And the people implementing the system i.e techs

arkadius [10:49 PM]
Hear hear

theperkyriolu [10:49 PM]
http://www.neotoday.org/wp-content/uploads/gavel2.jpg (871KB)

arkadius [10:55 PM]
New speedometer is up on the temp server, if you guys could check how it affects your FPS that would be swell k thanks bye

willhump [10:56 PM]
server name?

icarus [10:57 PM]
Question. @daalpha, all these implementations and such, they're on the dev server, right?

Including the replaced badmin and everything else?

daalpha [10:57 PM]

arkadius [10:57 PM]

daalpha [10:57 PM]

Has been running for the past 5 hours.

theperkyriolu [10:57 PM]
ok then

icarus [10:57 PM]
(I cannot check it now) but

Instead of this arguing that's taking us nowhere, is it possible that we

Temporarily implement these thingies into the main server

And try them out

And should they not suit our needs and such, replace them back with all the other stuff?

theperkyriolu [10:58 PM]
the server isn't showing up for me?

sjokie [10:58 PM]
Use quick connect

danjovi [10:58 PM] copy/paste in quick

daalpha [10:58 PM]
Not announced. Would ba a bad idea for a dev server.

theperkyriolu [10:59 PM]
thanks lads

willhump [10:59 PM]
@arkadius: getting anything between 1-5 fps drop when using the speedo

arkadius [10:59 PM]
okay good i think I am cut down the rendering by almost a quarter by removing the smaller inner markers on the rpm meter

sjokie [11:00 PM]
@arkadius: Almost no frame drop on my end

willhump [11:00 PM]
taking a much bigger hit in the city

10 fps when i spawn a car

daalpha [11:00 PM]
Well, that's the city in a nutshell.

For me 20 FPS in the general nowheres, as I said.

arkadius [11:01 PM]
Weird how much of a diference there is

willhump [11:01 PM]
well city on foot is at 94fps for me, around 80 with a car standing still

icarus [11:02 PM]
I wonder how it would turn out on my average 40fps

willhump [11:02 PM]
which isnt a problem to me but people running at 30fps might feel it pretty bad


icarus [11:06 PM]
A con should the new moderating system be turned into /kick [insert name]: some people have names with weird triangles and shapes and indistinguishable shapes that are pretty impossible to type out.

willhump [11:07 PM]
and russian characters